WHERE WE ARE
In Part 32 I rejected Kreeft's argument for Objection #10 against the Hallucination Theory because his historical premises make his argument both INVALID and UNSOUND. However, one of his premises is a principle about hallucinations that could be used as the basis for a reduction-to-absurdity objection against the Hallucination Theory. So, I have attempted to construct historical premises that would work with that principle, historical premises that are not as obviously IRRELEVANT or FALSE as the historical premises that Kreeft provided.
Here is the revised and improved core argument for Objection #10:
D. Over a period of about one or two months, Jesus' disciples had various experiences that seemed to be of the risen Jesus, and in at least some of those experiences, the person who they thought was the risen Jesus was NOT a figment of their imagination.
F. IF the Hallucination Theory were true, THEN in all of the experiences of Jesus' disciples that seemed to be of the risen Jesus and that took place over a period of about one or two months, it was the case that the person who they thought was the risen Jesus was just a figment of their imagination.
Therefore:
A. The Hallucination Theory is FALSE.
Premise (D) is a key premise in this argument, and it is based on Kreeft's principle about hallucinations, plus two historical claims:
2. Figments of your imagination do not hold extended conversations with you, unless you have a serious mental disorder.
B. Over a period of about one or two months, Jesus' disciples had various experiences that seemed to be experiences of the risen Jesus, and in some of those experiences it seemed to the disciples that they (sometimes individually and sometimes as a group) had extended conversations with the risen Jesus.
C. None of Jesus' disciples had a serious mental disorder.
Thus:
D. Over a period of about one or two months, Jesus' disciples had various experiences that seemed to be of the risen Jesus, and in at least some of those experiences, the person who they thought was the risen Jesus was NOT a figment of their imagination.
In Part 32 I argued that premise (C) was either FALSE or DUBIOUS, depending on how we interpret the VAGUE phrase "Jesus' disciples". If we interpret this phrase broadly, as referring to all of Jesus' followers in the weeks and months immediately after his crucifixion, then (C) is probably FALSE, because it is likely that at least a few of Jesus' many followers had a serious mental disorder.
In order to make it more likely that (C) is TRUE, we should interpret the phrase "Jesus' disciples" narrowly as referring to "the eleven" disciples who were specifically chosen by Jesus to be his inner circle of disciples. But in this case (C) is still DUBIOUS because we have almost no information about the words and actions of most of "the eleven" disciples, especially after the crucifixion.
In order to evaluate the argument for the key premise (D), we also need to evaluate the historical claim (B). In Part 32 I pointed out that the verse that Kreeft provides in support of his historical claim (Acts 1:3) not only FAILS to support his historical claim, but it also FAILS to support the historical claim made in premise (B).
However, there are eight passages in the NT that describe alleged experiences of the eleven disciples (or a subset of them) in which they experienced an alleged appearance of the risen Jesus. I will now review those eight passages to determine whether they provide strong support for premise (B).
DOES MATTHEW 28:16-20 SHOW THAT THE ELEVEN HAD AN EXTENDED CONVERSATION WITH THE RISEN JESUS?
Here is the relevant passage from Matthew:
16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them.
17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
In this passage, the risen Jesus says something to the eleven disciples. There is no indication that any of those disciples said anything to Jesus. Clearly, there is no indication in this passage that the eleven disciples experienced a CONVERSATION with Jesus.
Furthermore, even if we imagine that what Jesus said here was in answer to a question asked by one of the disciples, the words of Jesus here only take about 20 seconds to read out loud. If we consider this to be a conversation (i.e. Jesus was answering a question from a disciple), it was NOT an EXTENDED conversation. So, there is no indication in this passage that the disciples experienced what seemed to be an EXTENDED conversation with the risen Jesus.
Clearly, this passage from Matthew FAILS to show that the eleven disciples had an experience in which it seemed that they had an extended conversation with the risen Jesus.
DOES MARK 16:14-18 SHOW THAT THE ELEVEN HAD AN EXTENDED CONVERSATION WITH THE RISEN JESUS?
Here is the relevant passage from the Gospel of Mark:
14 Later he appeared to the eleven themselves as they were sitting at the table; and he upbraided them for their lack of faith and stubbornness, because they had not believed those who saw him after he had risen.
15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the good news to the whole creation.
16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved; but the one who does not believe will be condemned.
17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: by using my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
18 they will pick up snakes in their hands, and if they drink any deadly thing, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
(Mark 16:14-18, NRSV)
First, as with the passage from Matthew, this is NOT a CONVERSATION. Jesus is speaking to the disciples, but there is no indication that the disciples are saying anything to Jesus.
Second, even if we imagine that what Jesus says here was in response to a question from one of his disciples, it only takes about 40 seconds to read this passage out loud, including all the words allegedly spoken by Jesus. Jesus speaking to his disciples for less than one minute does NOT constitute an EXTENDED conversation. So, there is no indication in this passage that the disciples experienced what seemed to be an EXTENDED conversation with the risen Jesus.
Third, this passage is not found in the oldest manuscripts of Mark, and most NT scholars believe that this passage was NOT part of the original gospel of Mark, but was added later by someone other than the author of Mark.
Clearly, this passage from Mark FAILS to show that the eleven disciples had an experience in which it seemed that they had an extended conversation with the risen Jesus.
DOES LUKE 24:36-49 SHOW THAT THE ELEVEN HAD AN EXTENDED CONVERSATION WITH THE RISEN JESUS?
Here is the relevant passage from the Gospel of Luke:
36 While they were talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
37 They were startled and terrified, and thought that they were seeing a ghost.
38 He said to them, “Why are you frightened, and why do doubts arise in your hearts?
39 Look at my hands and my feet; see that it is I myself. Touch me and see; for a ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”
40 And when he had said this, he showed them his hands and his feet.
41 While in their joy they were disbelieving and still wondering, he said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?”
42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish,
43 and he took it and ate in their presence.
44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you—that everything written about me in the law of Moses, the prophets, and the psalms must be fulfilled.”
45 Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures,
46 and he said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Messiah is to suffer and to rise from the dead on the third day,
47 and that repentance and forgiveness of sins is to be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
48 You are witnesses of these things.
49 And see, I am sending upon you what my Father promised; so stay here in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”
(Luke 24:36-49, NRSV)
First, there is no indication in this passage that the disciples said anything to the risen Jesus. Rather, Jesus says some things to his disciples. But Jesus speaking to his disciples is NOT a CONVERSATION. So, there is no indication in this passage that the disciples experienced an alleged CONVERSATION with the risen Jesus.
Second, even if we imagine that Jesus spoke to his eleven disciples in response to a question from one of the disciples, the words of Jesus in this passage only take about 50 seconds to read out loud. Jesus speaking to his disciples for less than one minute does NOT constitute an EXTENDED conversation. So, there is no indication in this passage that the disciples experienced what seemed to be an EXTENDED conversation with the risen Jesus.
Third, this passage in Luke is one of the stories about an appearance of the risen Jesus to his eleven disciples in Jerusalem. But, as I have previously argued, these Jerusalem appearance stories are probably FICTIONAL, because they CONTRADICT the Gospels of Mark and Matthew which clearly indicate that the first appearances of the risen Jesus to his eleven disciples took place in Galilee a week or more after the crucifixion.
Clearly, this passage from Luke FAILS to show that the eleven disciples had an experience in which it seemed that they had an extended conversation with the risen Jesus.
DOES JOHN 20:19-23 SHOW THAT THE ELEVEN HAD AN EXTENDED CONVERSATION WITH THE RISEN JESUS?
Here is the first of the four relevant passages from the Gospel of John:
19 When it was evening on that day, the first day of the week, and the doors of the house where the disciples had met were locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.”
20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord.
21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.”
22 When he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
(John 20:19-23, NRSV)
First, there is no indication in this passage that the disciples said anything to the risen Jesus. Rather, Jesus says some things to his disciples. But Jesus speaking to his disciples is NOT a CONVERSATION. So, there is no indication in this passage that the disciples experienced an alleged CONVERSATION with the risen Jesus.
Second, even if we imagine that Jesus spoke to his eleven disciples in response to a question from one of the disciples, the words of Jesus in this passage only take about 20 seconds to read out loud. Jesus speaking to his disciples for less than one minute does NOT constitute an EXTENDED conversation. So, there is no indication in this passage that the disciples experienced what seemed to be an EXTENDED conversation with the risen Jesus.
Third, this passage in John is one of the stories about an appearance of the risen Jesus to his eleven disciples in Jerusalem. But, as I have previously argued, these Jerusalem-appearance stories are probably FICTIONAL, because they CONTRADICT the Gospels of Mark and Matthew which clearly indicate that the first appearances of the risen Jesus to his eleven disciples took place in Galilee a week or more after the crucifixion.
Clearly, this passage from John FAILS to show that the eleven disciples had an experience in which it seemed that they had an extended conversation with the risen Jesus.
DOES JOHN 20:24-29 SHOW THAT THE ELEVEN HAD AN EXTENDED CONVERSATION WITH THE RISEN JESUS?
Here is the second of the four relevant passages from the Gospel of John:
24 But Thomas (who was called the Twin), one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, “Unless I see the mark of the nails in his hands, and put my finger in the mark of the nails and my hand in his side, I will not believe.”
26 A week later his disciples were again in the house, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were shut, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.”
27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it in my side. Do not doubt but believe.”
28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have come to believe.”
(John 20:24-29. NRSV)
So far, this is the only passage where a disciple actually says something to the risen Jesus. In verse 28 Thomas says "My Lord and my God!" to Jesus. Because Thomas only utters a brief exclamation, it is not clear that this actually counts as a CONVERSATION.
Second, even if we stretch the meaning of the word "conversation" to include this brief exclamation by Thomas in response to Jesus, the words of Jesus and Thomas in this passage only take about 20 seconds to read out loud. Jesus talking with Thomas for less than one minute does NOT constitute an EXTENDED conversation. So, there is no indication in this passage that any of the disciples experienced what seemed to be an EXTENDED conversation with the risen Jesus.
Third, this passage in John is one of the stories about an appearance of the risen Jesus to his eleven disciples in Jerusalem. But, as I have previously argued, these Jerusalem-appearance stories are probably FICTIONAL, because they CONTRADICT the Gospels of Mark and Matthew which clearly indicate that the first appearances of the risen Jesus to his eleven disciples took place in Galilee a week or more after the crucifixion.
Clearly, this passage from John FAILS to show that any of the eleven disciples had an experience in which it seemed that they had an extended conversation with the risen Jesus.
DOES JOHN 21:4-13 SHOW THAT THE ELEVEN HAD AN EXTENDED CONVERSATION WITH THE RISEN JESUS?
Here is the third of the four relevant passages from the Gospel of John:
4 Just after daybreak, Jesus stood on the beach; but the disciples did not know that it was Jesus.
5 Jesus said to them, “Children, you have no fish, have you?” They answered him, “No.”
6 He said to them, “Cast the net to the right side of the boat, and you will find some.” So they cast it, and now they were not able to haul it in because there were so many fish.
7 That disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, “It is the Lord!” When Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he put on some clothes, for he was naked, and jumped into the sea.
8 But the other disciples came in the boat, dragging the net full of fish, for they were not far from the land, only about a hundred yards off.
9 When they had gone ashore, they saw a charcoal fire there, with fish on it, and bread.
10 Jesus said to them, “Bring some of the fish that you have just caught.”
11 So Simon Peter went aboard and hauled the net ashore, full of large fish, a hundred fifty-three of them; and though there were so many, the net was not torn.
12 Jesus said to them, “Come and have breakfast.” Now none of the disciples dared to ask him, “Who are you?” because they knew it was the Lord.
13 Jesus came and took the bread and gave it to them, and did the same with the fish.
(JOHN 21:4-13, NRSV)
First, in this passage, Jesus speaks to his disciples, but the only thing the disciples say to Jesus is the word "No" in response to a question from Jesus. Giving a one-word response to a question is NOT engaging in a CONVERSATION.
Second, even if we stretch the meaning of the word "conversation" to include instances where someone gives a one-word response to a question, the words of Jesus in this passage only take about 15 seconds to read out loud. Jesus speaking to his disciples for less than one minute does NOT constitute an EXTENDED conversation. So, there is no indication in this passage that the disciples experienced what seemed to be an EXTENDED conversation with the risen Jesus.
Third, the Gospel of John is viewed as an UNRELIABLE source of information about the life, ministry, and death of Jesus by scholars who study the historical Jesus. So, it is unclear whether this story is about an event that actually happened or whether this is a FICTIONAL story.
Clearly, this passage from John FAILS to show that any of the eleven disciples had an experience in which it seemed that they had an extended conversation with the risen Jesus.
DOES JOHN 21:15-19 SHOW THAT THE ELEVEN HAD AN EXTENDED CONVERSATION WITH THE RISEN JESUS?
Here is the fourth and final relevant passage from the Gospel of John:
15 When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my lambs.”
16 A second time he said to him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Tend my sheep.”
17 He said to him the third time, “Simon son of John, do you love me?” Peter felt hurt because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” And he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.
18 Very truly, I tell you, when you were younger, you used to fasten your own belt and to go wherever you wished. But when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will fasten a belt around you and take you where you do not wish to go.”
19 (He said this to indicate the kind of death by which he would glorify God.) After this he said to him, “Follow me.”
(JOHN 21:15-19, NRSV)
This is the ONLY passage in ANY of the four Gospels that indicates that one of the eleven disciples of Jesus had an experience of the risen Jesus in which it seemed that the disciple had a conversation with the risen Jesus. Peter doesn't say much to Jesus, but there is some back-and-forth between them, with Jesus repeatedly asking Peter if he loved Jesus, and Peter repeatedly answering Jesus' question. That is enough to reasonably consider this to be describing an experience of an alleged CONVERSATION between Peter and the risen Jesus.
However, the words of Peter and Jesus in this passage only take about 40 seconds to read out loud. Jesus conversing with Peter for less than one minute does NOT constitute Peter and Jesus having an EXTENDED conversation. So, there is no indication in this passage that any disciple experienced what seemed to be an EXTENDED conversation with the risen Jesus.
Furthermore, the Gospel of John is viewed as an UNRELIABLE source of information about the life, ministry, and death of Jesus by scholars who study the historical Jesus. So, it is unclear whether this story is about an event that actually happened or whether this is a FICTIONAL story.
Clearly, this passage from John FAILS to show that any of the eleven disciples had an experience in which it seemed that they had an extended conversation with the risen Jesus.
DOES ACTS 1:4-9 SHOW THAT THE ELEVEN HAD AN EXTENDED CONVERSATION WITH THE RISEN JESUS?
Here is the one relevant passage from Acts:
4 While staying with them, he ordered them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait there for the promise of the Father. “This,” he said, “is what you have heard from me;
5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, is this the time when you will restore the kingdom to Israel?”
7 He replied, “It is not for you to know the times or periods that the Father has set by his own authority.
8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
9 When he had said this, as they were watching, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight.
(Acts 1:4-9, NRSV)
In this passage, there appear to be two separate events. In verses 4 and 5 Jesus says something to the disciples, but they don't say anything to Jesus. These verses appear to be a recap of Jesus' initial appearance to the eleven disciples at the end of Luke Chapter 24:
46 and he said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Messiah is to suffer and to rise from the dead on the third day,
47 and that repentance and forgiveness of sins is to be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
48 You are witnesses of these things.
49 And see, I am sending upon you what my Father promised; so stay here in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”
(Luke 24:46-49, NRSV)
According to the Gospel of Luke, the risen Jesus spoke these words to his eleven disciples on the first Easter Sunday in Jerusalem. So, Acts 1, verses 4 and 5 presumably is about the same event on the first Easter Sunday. But as I have repeatedly pointed out, the Jerusalem-appearance stories in Luke and John are probably FICTIONAL, because they contradict Mark and Matthew. So, the account of the interaction between Jesus and the eleven in Acts 1:4-5 is also probably FICTION. In any case, the disciples say NOTHING to Jesus in those verses, so there is no CONVERSATION at all between them and the risen Jesus, and thus no EXTENDED conversation between the disciples and Jesus in those verses.
Verse 6 begins "So when they had come together..." indicating that verses 6-9 are about a different event that took place at a different time. This event ends with Jesus being "lifted up" and "a cloud" taking Jesus "out of their sight." This "ascension" of Jesus into heaven supposedly took place 40 days after the crucifixion:
3 After his suffering he presented himself alive to them by many convincing proofs, appearing to them during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God. (Acts 1:3, NRSV)
So, verses 4 and 5 refer to a FICTIONAL event that Luke presents as taking place on Easter Sunday, while verses 6-9 refer to the day when Jesus allegedly ascended into heaven, which Acts asserts took place about 40 days after Jesus was crucified.
In verse 6, the eleven disciples (or some of them) ask Jesus a question and Jesus responds to that question in verses 7 and 8. It is unclear whether such a brief question and answer exchange should be considered to be a CONVERSATION.
Even if we stretch the meaning of the word "conversation" to include such a brief exchange as this one, it only takes about 20 seconds to read out loud the words of Jesus and the words of the disciples in verses 6 through 8. Jesus talking with his disciples for less than one minute does NOT constitute an EXTENDED conversation. So, there is no indication in this passage that the eleven disciples experienced what seemed to be an EXTENDED conversation with the risen Jesus.
EVALUATIONS OF PREMISES (B) and (C)
Premise (D) is a key premise in the core argument for Objection #10. Premises (B) and (C) are two premises in the argument for the key premise (D). So, if (B) or (C) are DUBIOUS or FALSE, then the argument for (D) should be rejected.
Premise (C) is DUBIOUS because we know very little about the words and actions of most of the eleven disciples, especially after the crucifixion of Jesus. So, we don't have sufficient information to evaluate the mental health of most of the eleven disciples.
After examining all of the passages in the NT that describe alleged experiences of the eleven disciples in which they (or some subset of them) seemed to experience an appearance of the risen Jesus, it turns out that there are ZERO cases in which an individual member of the eleven disciples allegedly experienced what seemed to be an EXTENDED CONVERSATION with the risen Jesus, and there are ZERO cases in which the eleven disciples as a group allegedly experienced what seemed to be an EXTENDED CONVERSATION with the risen Jesus. Thus, based on an examination of the relevant passages in the NT, there is NO basis for the historical claim asserted in premise (B). Therefore, premise (B) is DUBIOUS.
Because at least two of the premises in the argument supporting premise (D) are DUBIOUS, we should reject this argument for (D), and thus (D) itself remains DUBIOUS.
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