The Trilemma Argument - Part 5: Five Passages from the Gospel of John

 1. JOHN 10:24-33, NRSV Updated Edition

In Chapter 5 of Evidence for Jesus, the first passage the McDowells reference in the section called "Jesus' claims of Divinity" is this one from the Gospel of John:

 24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered, “I have told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name testify to me, 26 but you do not believe because you do not belong to my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice. I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, in regard to what he has given me, is greater than all, and no one can snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 The Father and I are one.”

31 The Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus replied, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these are you going to stone me?” 33 The Jews answered, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, though only a human, are making yourself God.”

• The Gospel of John is a historically unreliable account of the life and words of Jesus.
• Jesus never says “The Father and I are one” or “God and I are one” or “The Father and the Messiah are one” or “God and the Messiah are one” or “The Father and the Son are one” or “God and the Son are one” in any of the other three Gospels.
• Paul never says “The Father and Jesus are one” or “God and Jesus are one” of “The Father and the Messiah are one” or “God and the Messiah are one” or “The Father and the Son are one” or “God and the Son are one” in any of his letters.
• In the New Testament, outside of the Gospel of John, nobody ever says “The Father and Jesus are one” or “God and Jesus are one” or “The Father and the Messiah are one” or “God and the Messiah are one”
• If Jesus did actually claim to be one with God, he did not mean that he was God himself. This is clear from Jesus’ discussion of oneness in Chapter 17 of the Gospel of John:

20 “I ask not only on behalf of these but also on behalf of those who believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 The glory that you have given me I have given them, so that they may be one, as we are one, 23 I in them and you in me, that they may become completely one, so that the world may know that you have sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

Jesus is “one” with the Father, because the Father is in him, and Jesus is in the Father (verse 21). But Jesus prays that “they [Jesus’ followers] also be in us” and “I [Jesus] in them”. If we assume that Jesus is God, then Jesus is praying that his followers will be in him (i.e. God) and that he (i.e. God) will be in them. But that would mean that the followers of Jesus would, just like Jesus, be one with God.

Thus, if being one with God makes a person God, then every follower of Jesus would be God. Obviously, nobody, not even Jesus, believed that every follower of Jesus was God. Therefore, being one with God does not imply being God.

 

2.  JOHN 5:17-18, NRSV Updated Edition

17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father is still working, and I also am working.” 18 For this reason the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because he was not only breaking the Sabbath but was also calling God his own Father, thereby making himself equal to God.

·       The Gospel of John is a historically unreliable account of the life and words of Jesus.

·       Jesus never says “I am equal to God”, or “I am equal to the Father”, or “I am equal with God”, or “I am equal with the Father”, in any of the Gospels, including the Gospel of John.

·       Jesus never says “the Messiah is equal to God” or “the Messiah is equal with God” or “the Son of God is equal to God” or “the Son of God is equal with God” in any of the Gospels, including the Gospel of John.

·       Paul never says “Jesus is equal to God”, or “Jesus is equal to the Father”, or “Jesus is equal with God”, or “Jesus is equal with the Father” in any of his letters.

·       Paul never says “The Messiah is equal to God” or “The Messiah is equal with God” or “the Son of God is equal to God” or “the Son of God is equal with God.” NOTE: There is a passage in a letter of Paul’s to the Philippians (2:5-7) where Paul quotes a Christian hymn that talks about Jesus and “equality with God”, but Paul doesn’t have to agree with the theology of that hymn to make his point, and it is unclear that the hymn asserts or assumes that Jesus is God or that Jesus is equal with God.

·       In the New Testament, outside of the Gospel of John, nobody ever says “Jesus is equal to God”, or “Jesus is equal to the Father”, or “Jesus is equal with God”, or “Jesus is equal with the Father” or “the Messiah is equal to God” or “the Messiah is equal with God” or “the Son of God is equal to God” or “the Son of God is equal with God.”

·       Although the historical Jesus probably did refer to God as his “father”, this does not mean that Jesus was claiming to be equal to God. Jesus taught his disciples to pray to God this way: “Our Father in heaven…” (Matthew 6:7-15). Clearly Jesus believed that God was a father to Jesus' disciples, but Jesus did not believe that his disciples were equal to God, nor that any of his disciples was God himself.

3.  JOHN 8:57-59, NRSVUE

57 Then the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them, “Very truly, I tell you, before Abraham was, I am.” 59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

·       The Gospel of John is a historically unreliable account of the life and words of Jesus.

·       Jesus never says “before Abraham was, I am” in any of the other three Gospels.

·       Jesus never claims to have existed before his own birth in any of the other three Gospels.

·       There is no explanation by “the Jews” who picked up stones to throw at Jesus as to why they objected to what Jesus said, and there is no explanation by the author of this Gospel about why “the Jews” objected to what Jesus said. We can only speculate about why they were offended by Jesus’ response.

·       Even if Jesus did claim to have existed before Abraham, that does not imply that Jesus claimed to be God. Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel, Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japeth all existed before Abraham (according to the Bible), but nobody believes that any of them were God. The angels, including the devil, existed before Abraham (according to the Bible), but nobody believes that any of the angels are God, and certainly nobody believes that the devil is God.

·       Some Jews in Jesus’ time believed that the Messiah existed in heaven prior to being sent by God to lead the Jewish people, but they did not believe that the Messiah was God. So, Jesus could have believed the Messiah would exist in heaven prior to being born, and also believe that he was the Messiah, and therefore that he must have existed in heaven before he was born, even though he had no memory of being in heaven before he was born. Being the Messiah, however, does not imply being God. So, if Jesus believed he was the Messiah, he might well have inferred that he must have existed in heaven prior to his birth and yet did not believe himself to be God.

·       Alternatively, Jesus might not have believed himself to be the Messiah nor believed he existed in heaven before he was born, but after his death and alleged resurrection some of his followers imposed this already existing concept of the Messiah on Jesus, and shaped the words and teachings of Jesus to conform with their belief that Jesus was the Messiah.

 

4.  JOHN 5:22-23, NRSVUE

22 The Father judges no one but has given all judgment to the Son, 23 so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Anyone who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.

·       The Gospel of John is a historically unreliable account of the life and words of Jesus.

·       Jesus never uses the phrase “honor the Son” anywhere else in the Gospel of John or anywhere in the other three Gospels, or anywhere else in the New Testament.

·       Jesus never uses the phrase “worship the Son”, or “worship the Messiah”, or “worshipped the Son” or “worshiped the Messiah” anywhere in the New Testament.

·       Paul never uses the phrase “honor the Son” anywhere in the New Testament.

·       Paul never uses the phrases “worship the Son”, or “worship the Messiah”, or “worship Jesus”, or “worshipped the Son” or “worshipped the Messiah” or “worshipped Jesus” anywhere in the New Testament.

·       Apart from this one verse in the Gospel of John, nobody ever uses the phrase “honor the Son” anywhere in the New Testament.

·       Nobody in the New Testament ever uses the phrases “worship Jesus”, or “worship the Messiah”, or “worship the Son”, or “worshiped Jesus”, or “worshiped the Messiah”, or “worshiped the Son”.

·       If the historical Jesus actually claimed he would be the judge of all humankind, that would not imply that Jesus claimed to be God. God can delegate his authority to a human being.  According to the Gospel of John, Jesus planned to delegate eternal judgment of humans to his disciples. But nobody believes that each of Jesus disciples are God. According to Paul, God planned to delegate eternal judgment of humans and angels to Christian believers (1 Corinthians 6:2), but nobody believes that all Christian believers are God.

·       If the historical Jesus actually claimed that he should “receive honor” just as God should “receive honor”, that would not imply that Jesus claimed be God. Jesus believed that prophets of God should receive honor (Mark 6:4 and John 4:44), but nobody, including Jesus, believes that every prophet is God. According to the Gospel of John, God will honor those who are followers or servants of Jesus (John 12:25-26), but nobody, including Jesus, believes that God will worship the followers of Jesus.

 

5.  JOHN 14:7-9, NRSVUE

7 If you know me, you will know my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him.”

8 Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied.” 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and you still do not know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

·       The Gospel of John is a historically unreliable account of the life and words of Jesus.

·       Jesus does not in any other Gospel claim that those who saw him saw God.

·       Jesus does not use the phrase “seen me”, or “seen the Messiah”, or “seen the Son”, in any other Gospel.

·       Jesus never uses the phrases “seen the Father” or “show us the Father”, or “show the Father”, or “show us God” in any other Gospel. Jesus does use the phrase “see God” just once, but he uses it as a round-about way of saying some people who are good will go to heaven (Matthew 5:8).

·       Paul never uses the phrases “seen the Son”, or “seen the Messiah”, or “show us the Father” or “show the Father” or “show us God” or “show God”, or “seen the Father”, or “seen God” in the New Testament. Paul uses the phrase “seen Jesus” just once (1 Corinthians 9:1), and this is not a reference to seeing the historical flesh-and-blood Jesus, but refers to an alleged appearance of the risen Jesus to Paul, which was probably a vision or hallucination.

·       Outside the Gospel of John and the letters attributed to John, nobody in the New Testament ever uses the phrases “seen the Son”, or “seen the Messiah”, or “show us the Father” or “show the Father” or “show us God” or “show God”, or “seen the Father”, or “seen God”, and the phrase “seen Jesus” occurs only once, in a letter by Paul (see the previous bullet).

·       If the historical Jesus actually claimed that people who saw him saw God, this does not imply that Jesus claimed to be God. Jesus might well have believed that his words and actions were fully in accordance with God’s will, and thus that his words and actions clearly revealed God’s will and God’s character to the people who heard his words and observed his actions. In other words, the claim that those who have seen Jesus have seen God might well mean that Jesus’ words and actions were fully in accordance with the will of God, not that Jesus himself was God.